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Author Topic: Evans and Littlejohn Vs. Sayers?  (Read 3127 times)
Andrew
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« on: May 02, 2007, 10:31:28 AM »

In their book "Wisdom and Eloquence" Robert Littlejohn and Charles Evans challenge the application of Sayers essay as classical education. Are we looking at two separate models? What do they share in common? How are they different?
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Andrew
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 05:02:08 PM »

OK, too many questions. What do Evans and Littlejohn share in common with Sayers?

Feel free to draw quotations out of their book if you have it. I don't have it with me right now.
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Andrew
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 12:50:52 PM »

They really tear apart Sayers' essay, don't they?  I think the biggest difference is seeing the Trivium as stages (Sayers) vs. disciplines (L&E).  L&E  "it doesn't make sense to say the grammar of math" I find amusing if a bit over the top.  I'm inclined to say we can see them as "both."  Dr. Perrin has a nice little booklet on Classical Education (http://www.classicalacademicpress.com/ice.html) that works both views together showing that all three disciplines are studied at all stages, but where they intersect there is a greater emphasis.  IOW, Grammar the discipline is emphasized during the "Grammar Stage" while Dialectic and Rhetoric are both also studied and Grammar the discipline *continues to be studied* through the Dialectic and Rhetoric stages.

W&E opened my thinking on how the Trivium and Quadrivium work together rather than in sequence.  Its discussion of scope and sequence has profoundly influenced the design of our homeschool (even though it is a book on how to set up an out of the home school).  It is the first place that I found a discussion of Classical Education having an outcome of Wisdom and Eloquence (although I am interested in your Wisdom & Virtue discussed in various places on this board).
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SteveE
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 08:01:15 AM »

I would love to have the discussion of how "Wisdom & Eloquence" differs from "Wisdom and Virtue."  Does it?  How?  What philosophical implications are behind both?
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ReneeM
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 09:08:27 AM »

I just received my copy of W&E yesterday and am eagerly reading! One of my fellow Circe apprentices recommended this book on her website.

In my thinking so far (although I'm willing to be taught/corrected/challenged!) wisdom is an inner quality that is demonstrated through outward action (virtue) yet still needs the capability of being expressed well (eloquence).

-Renee in Houston
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woodenacorn
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 10:35:50 AM »

Renee,

In my thinking so far (although I'm willing to be taught/corrected/challenged!) wisdom is an inner quality that is demonstrated through outward action (virtue) yet still needs the capability of being expressed well (eloquence).

I like your explanation.  Would it be fair to say that an eloquent life is one filled with wisdom and virtue?  Where does grace (being filled with grace in the power of the Spirit) come into play with either wisdom and virtue and wisdom and eloquence?

Anybody feel free to answer.

Suzanne

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Lauralee
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 11:15:18 AM »

Renee, I love your thoughts.

As to grace, I often think of it being supplied to us through the Holy Spirit so that we can act in an appropriately "grace-full" manner. Would this apply somehow?
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